Forum - DDraceNetwork

I totally support this compromise!

Well we had like 50% of race server... anyway bb race..

I don't really know how those reasons are worth to stop releasing maps...if this goes on you'll gonna shutdown the race server soon :0 I said i could test the maps, also we dont have to release maps everyday on the race server if the quantity is a problem...
More and more i think ddnet is going into the wrong direction like ddmax. Admins decide even though there is a poll, why is it there then? Also racers didn't comment about it, because they thought everything is okay because the poll is going good for them.
Ddnet isn't a race community i know, but there was the option for a race server and after a week you see you made a mistake? Explain that a bit more please.
There are people who like to play those new race maps. At least more than people playing teefoot or zombie escape :0
Why is 10 more maps so much better than more? Idk what you have to do for releasing a map, but if its just pressing a button for release (metaphor) then why not releasing more maps.

Don't have a bad mood after reading this, i can't write very optimistic :/ just stay happy :3

-maggi323

maggi323 wrote:if this goes on you'll gonna shutdown the race server soon :0

Yes, that was my initial plan, maybe then people would stop nagging me about the race server every day.

maggi323 wrote:I said i could test the maps, also we dont have to release maps everyday on the race server if the quantity is a problem...

Haven't heard anything about people volunteering to test from the people running the race server, Index and Welf. But since they're both currently not available for this, I would have to take over the organization, which I don't want to.

maggi323 wrote:More and more i think ddnet is going into the wrong direction like ddmax. Admins decide even though there is a poll, why is it there then?

For me it's the opposite. People tell me about things they want in DDNet and I have to work on these things for hours every day, otherwise they will complain about it, saying I don't respect them, only do what I want and never listen to others, etc.

maggi323 wrote:Ddnet isn't a race community i know, but there was the option for a race server and after a week you see you made a mistake? Explain that a bit more please.

Yes, after a week I notice when dozens complain to me about adding the race server and maps. But at this point it doesn't matter what I do, some people will be unhappy and complain anyway. Some want all race maps here, some want no race maps here, some want the best race maps here. Some want short maps, some want no short maps at all. Some want points, others want no points. etc etc

maggi323 wrote:There are people who like to play those new race maps. At least more than people playing teefoot or zombie escape :0

And that's why Teefoot has been shut down long ago.

maggi323 wrote:Why is 10 more maps so much better than more? Idk what you have to do for releasing a map, but if its just pressing a button for release (metaphor) then why not releasing more maps.

• I have to find the most recent version of the map, sometimes by asking the tester where it is
• Look at the map myself and consider whether it should really be released
• Make a screenshot and convert it into the correct format for the website
• Create a file containing the most important information about the map and upload it to the server
• Edit the votes of the server
• Cause the servers worldwide to update themselves to the new map
• Of course sometimes something breaks in this, so I have to fix that too
• Announce the map release on all servers worldwide
• Update the Planned Released in Forum
• Update and move the forum thread of the map to the archive
• See how the map is played and fix bugs that cause problems
• Listen to dozens of complaints about how shitty this map is and why it hasn't been tested properly
• Listen to a few other complaints about why this map was released and not another one (usually their own or one of their friends')
• Listen to complaints that I did a mistake on one of these steps and shouldn't lead DDNet because I'm incapable of that

Of course not all of these happen every day, but often enough.

Anyway, this is not about the work I have to do, it's more about no one being available to test these maps, many people not wanting them on DDNet, and the general race interest being low.

Maybe we can consider the 10 maps a temporary measure of the next maps to release to boost the race server popularity, not sure if we'll find someone to even test and prepare them, not even talking about the next 50.

I totally agree with maggi323. I'm really sry to say that, but in my opinion this is completely going in the wrong direction.
We did a vote whether we should release all the remaining maps or not. The result clearly showed that roughly 65% percent want to play all maps. Of course not all active ddnet players voted and so on but I'm pretty sure it roughly shows the direction: The majority wants to play the other maps as well.
So, I can't understand at all why you now act against the result. The community decided and the admin just made a decision on his own (ignoring the others more or less).

Well whatever, I don't want to insult you or anything like that. I just personally like the race server, so I get kinda emotional here.
Maybe you could overthink your decision once again, because there might be better solutions.
Right now we would have a race server with 33 rather nice maps, all rewarded with a small amount of points. Good. But it feels incomplete, like we gave up half the way through. We didn't stop with ddmax maps either, although many people complained and endlessly discussed the influences on the point system. We just released them to keep them alive (although ddnet didnt want to have ddmax maps at all in the very beginning).
It's almost the same with the race server now, we want to collect all playable race maps at one place.

So, here is my suggestion: Add the ten voted maps like you wanted to do and then release all the remaining maps with zero points.
The race servers seem to stay either way (with 33 or with 100+ maps). They can easily be transformed to a ddrace server by vote, so people who doesn't like race can totally ignore the server and play ddrace instead. The won't lose any potential points for not playing race.
All the people that want to play race or just want to try it out can do that on a great variety of 100+ maps with different styles. They can race for fun or fight for the best ranks.

Oh, and..

deen wrote:I have 0 people who want to help with the race server.

It might be the case right now. But that reason should not be a big problem. Who cares if the server stays untouched for one week. It doesnt have to be immediately. But I know that there are many people who want to help and I promise that you'll get a proper list for releases sooner or later (with the right text formation etc, so you just have to actually release them without further work!).
Making this poll was more work and useless if we would not argue in the first place..
Well, long story short. I don't want to insult or offend anyone here :'( I'm just emotionally-driven and wrote my personal opinion.
I still love you for all the work and will respect (and even accept) the decision whatever this might be :3

maggi323 wrote:Don't have a bad mood after reading this, i can't write very optimistic :/ just stay happy :3

I couldn't write it better.

Index wrote:

deen wrote:I have 0 people who want to help with the race server.

It might be the case right now. But that reason should not be a big problem. Who cares if the server stays untouched for one week.

I waited for over 7 months now...

I guess I'll just let you take over organizing the Race server again, for me that's the same as shutting it down, as I don't have to do any work then.

Index wrote:I totally agree with maggi323. I'm really sry to say that, but in my opinion this is completely going in the wrong direction.
We did a vote whether we should release all the remaining maps or not. The result clearly showed that roughly 65% percent want to play all maps. Of course not all active ddnet players voted and so on but I'm pretty sure it roughly shows the direction: The majority wants to play the other maps as well.
So, I can't understand at all why you now act against the result. The community decided and the admin just made a decision on his own (ignoring the others more or less).

The vote shows clearly that 95% of all players either don't know that the poll exists or just don't care and that's also why deen read the arguements wrote there. So it is wrong to say that he made his decision on his own, the posts in that thread are part of that result.

And about the comparison with the DDmaX-Server:
The biggest difference is that DDmaX was shutted down for unkown time cause ongoing DDoS-attacks. So most maps there aren't hosted by an good server anymore, but Race maps are still mostly hosted on well known servers.

deen wrote: Yes, that was my initial plan, maybe then people would stop nagging me about the race server every day.

As if it would be different to people complaining about bad ddrace maps being released...

deen wrote: Haven't heard anything about people volunteering to test from the people running the race server, Index and Welf. But since they're both currently not available for this, I would have to take over the organization, which I don't want to.

Well, in the Race server thread I told Welf, that I would like to help testing the race maps.

deen wrote: For me it's the opposite. People tell me about things they want in DDNet and I have to work on these things for hours every day, otherwise they will complain about it, saying I don't respect them, only do what I want and never listen to others, etc.

And we really appreciate your work! It's just because a community that has the option to decide and votes for a thing, should be accepted.

deen wrote: Yes, after a week I notice when dozens complain to me about adding the race server and maps. But at this point it doesn't matter what I do, some people will be unhappy and complain anyway. Some want all race maps here, some want no race maps here, some want the best race maps here. Some want short maps, some want no short maps at all. Some want points, others want no points. etc etc

That's why there is a vote. When a vote has more people for one thing, you can't expect less people to complain if you do another thing...

deen wrote:

• I have to find the most recent version of the map, sometimes by asking the tester where it is
• Look at the map myself and consider whether it should really be released
• Make a screenshot and convert it into the correct format for the website
• Create a file containing the most important information about the map and upload it to the server
• Edit the votes of the server
• Cause the servers worldwide to update themselves to the new map
• Of course sometimes something breaks in this, so I have to fix that too
• Announce the map release on all servers worldwide
• Update the Planned Released in Forum
• Update and move the forum thread of the map to the archive
• See how the map is played and fix bugs that cause problems
• Listen to dozens of complaints about how shitty this map is and why it hasn't been tested properly
• Listen to a few other complaints about why this map was released and not another one (usually their own or one of their friends')
• Listen to complaints that I did a mistake on one of these steps and shouldn't lead DDNet because I'm incapable of that

Of course not all of these happen every day, but often enough.

To the first few points:
How about a race cathegory in the tester forum? Then the testers for the race mod could post a Topic about the fixed map, with a screenshot and how many points they give the map, the map itself and what do you mean by the most important information? stars and mapper? Could do that too. Less work for you.

Listen to everything, I know...There's always hate! Right now maybe more on the race server because it's new...It just needs time :O People that are complaining are mostly the people, that can't do the map, or didn't play the old race maps in the past, or don't wanna finish them for points.
BUT they also have to finish every map on the solo and other ddrace servers, there are also maps that people don't like. Less points on the race server is okay, maybe people won't complain that much then. I could just think of: "Why does this map only give so few points grrr, i don't wanna finish it", but then they don't really need the points.

deen wrote: Anyway, this is not about the work I have to do, it's more about no one being available to test these maps, many people not wanting them on DDNet, and the general race interest being low.

Well, how many people wanted the zombie escape? It really was fun for a moment, but not for a long time. New maps on race server means longer fun for the people that play race. Well many people don't want them on DDNet?

hi_leute_gll wrote: The vote shows clearly that 95% of all players either don't know that the poll exists or just don't care and that's also why deen read the arguements wrote there. So it is wrong to say that he made his decision on his own, the posts in that thread are part of that result.

The poll was more like there are more people who want the race server. Yes, not everyone voted, but in real life they also just ask a few people and then say "??% of people on the world don't like..."
You can't ask every single person. Also the ones who care about it vote...

deen wrote: Maybe we can consider the 10 maps a temporary measure of the next maps to release to boost the race server popularity, not sure if we'll find someone to even test and prepare them, not even talking about the next 50.

Well, I wouldn't test all day myself, but a few races every week should be okay for the racers, too. Still better than no more maps for the people that want to play them

And yes, I still appreciate your work haha It's just that sometimes, you can't make it right for everyone...

-maggi323

hi_leute_gll wrote:

Index wrote:I totally agree with maggi323. I'm really sry to say that, but in my opinion this is completely going in the wrong direction.
We did a vote whether we should release all the remaining maps or not. The result clearly showed that roughly 65% percent want to play all maps. Of course not all active ddnet players voted and so on but I'm pretty sure it roughly shows the direction: The majority wants to play the other maps as well.
So, I can't understand at all why you now act against the result. The community decided and the admin just made a decision on his own (ignoring the others more or less).

The vote shows clearly that 95% of all players either don't know that the poll exists or just don't care and that's also why deen read the arguements wrote there. So it is wrong to say that he made his decision on his own, the posts in that thread are part of that result.

Maybe these 95% don't care because they just want to have fun on DDNet?
They don't hate race, and they don't love race.
Just want to try something new.

And to the players who are against the raceserver:
I already met many old racers on the servers, who don't know this poll, too.
They all would vote yes.
So all in all the ammount of players who would vote "No" is equal to the ammount of players which would choose "Yes".

And i totally agree with maggi&index

run_pokemon .... good old memories

Forris wrote:Little question, could you please add run_grasshell ?

I had the same thought. It's actually called run_grass_hell right? :p