Forum - DDraceNetwork

Someone seems to be mad here :]

Hey teini94,

I understand what you mean and ye maybe I did not the right thing. The map was playable without some of my changes and I'm sry for just editing a few parts :(
However I would like to explain you why I decided to do it like that. You know in the last couple of months (and also before) we released many 'hard' maps on the oldschool (and brutal) servers, like Animus, the Stereotype series or Striped Clouds. All of these maps are really good, but only a few players are able to finish them or they need at least a huge amount of time and tries to do it. I feel like those maps are nice for tw pros, but not enjoyable for the majority of casual players. We want to attract many player and provide them a map that is challenging on the one hand side but also fun to play and not frustrating after trying it for the 325235time. In my opinion the map is still challenging for many tees and the fact that over 40 tees finished the map in under 24h since release shows that the community seems to like the map. Again, I'm not against hard maps, but the maps I mentioned above were released some time ago and only Animus has two finishes, the rest of the maps is even without a finish. Many player tried and still try to finish that map, the have probably fun doing it, but the majority (or at least quite a few) eventually lose the ambition to finish those maps, cause they simply can't do it. They fail for the 32525time at the same part and just give up. Of course that's a drastic example and the realitly might be not that bad, but I think you know what I mean. Furthermore I noticed while testing Insanity that some parts are really easy and only a few parts are hard or really challenging. I don't want to say that the balance was kinda bad, but at least for me some parts were really easy and some hard. I tried my best to change that and maybe did it wrong. I'm not flawless, none is, so I took a screenshot of the things I changed and want to explain it to you (see attachments). The thing with the endless hook though is really shit, ye. The version that is currently released is not the right one. Right now you can even cheat this part and get endless for the whole map, I messed that up. But I fixed that before the actual release. Unfortunately something went wrong and somehow the wrong version was released, I added a screenshot with the fixed part as well as an attachment.
So all in all, I don't really want to undo the changes, maybe you'll understand the reasons why I did them (screenies description + that text). Again I want to say, that all of this is just my personal opinion and that I maybe did the wrong thing. Sometimes I simply change too much and I know that, it's not right to somehow disturb the property of others, but I always try to do it as best as I can and always try to enhance the things. This time I probably did not archieve that.
So I dont really know what to do now, we have to fix that one cheatable part for sure (just upload the version from testservers) or if the majority of you want the changes to be undone, I'll do that to clear up my allegedly mistake and we start again with this map ._.

~Index

I just have to say: Index, you're a great tester and map-improver. I haven't played this map, but for example in Light Grey you really improved the map a lot. I hope you keep up the good work, even if you get some back feedback. Unfortunately we can't make everyone happy. Also, players just expect oldschool maps to be like they remember them, so these changes might not be so welcome.

Index, I fixed many small things, because you said "maybe someone should do another real test run and then we can release it at Oldschools servers (1-2*)"
So it will be easier, if you take the released version and fix the cheat. I don't rly want to run this map again and fix single tiles. I didn't change gameplay.
Sometimes I feel too that I fixed too much and just like I wanted.

Btw. Who changed place and aspect rationed "by Knight :3" on Minimum?

Ok, so I took the version from the oldschool servers and completely removed all the endless-stuff. The part is doable without it and most of the players already did it without using endless. So, the part is now like it was in the very first version, that teini94 uploaded.

A few additional things to the ongoing conversation. Thanks deen for the kind words, I really appreciate that and of course I'll keep doing these things. Bad feedback (which actually wasn't that bad or mean at all) is normal and as I already wrote, I do understand teini94. He was just used to the great old map and I see that I probably did a mistake. I feel exactly like Saavik, sometimes I simply change to much or even some things that were probably good already but I wanted them to be even better or I wanted them to be slightly different. Most of the time this might be ok. But sometimes it is not, especially if it is a oldschool map that many people already know and where the creator cannot be asked cause he's often inactive for quite some time.
So, I'll definitely continue testing maps, enhancing maps and so on but I'll pay more attention to those things in the future (:

About that Minimum change: I did no editor changes to that map at all. At least I can't remember doing anything :o

expect oldschool maps to be like they remember them, so these changes might not be so welcome.

yes that is a good reason.

Hey teini94,

You know in the last couple of months (and also before) we released many 'hard' maps on the oldschool (and brutal) servers, like Animus, the Stereotype series or Striped Clouds. All of these maps are really good, but only a few players are able to finish them or they need at least a huge amount of time and tries to do it."´

We want to attract many player and provide them a map that is challenging on the one hand side but also fun to play and not frustrating after trying it for the 325235time.

but think about the difference

frustating -> "oldschool map I am no Superman 1 the second part where you fall 2 parts back" (but it is ok) not too bad

hard is you fail at a part who is too hard(you are too slow , dont have the pro-hooking or something else). << that is very challenging and very good <I think!

I know many players can't do super-very-hard-parts but that is not the problem of the mapper ( I think the mapper wanted that this map is hard to finish)

look @ Stereotype (I dont know the map) it is hard but the maper wanted it

and I think we only need more maps (so we have all types of maps (easy long, short hard, too hard challengeing) you only need to make more Stars someday
like 45 points maps maybe.

/save feature


look @ me I never give up. I played 221min for finishing brutal 2 koule 17 <<
I played 100min for oldschool 3 hardcore 7
brutal 2 hardcore 11 in 120min
falling star moderate 4 (hardest map of all of this) 273min but I never gave up

and I think because I trying it not only for the 325235time but for the 999399 time I can earn my points!

but sure I gave up the new brutal map too ! inception! but I am very happy about this map. because a great challenge! and I will finish it.

but you are right not for all players good! (because many gave up so fast)

but for the who dont give up(they getting better and better)

And All tees can come one day back (with more skill) and beat a map.

Furthermore I noticed while testing Insanity that some parts are really easy and only a few parts are hard or really challenging.

that is another map style I think
look @ Falling Star ´[at beginning 3 star novice map - than brutal 3(I think)] = moderate 4?
that is the question . but why not some easy parts in a hard map? (there you can try your fast skillz) and in the hard parts you can try your hard skillz.
for making rank 1

So all in all, I don't really want to undo the changes, maybe you'll understand the reasons why I did them (screenies description + that text).
I'll do that to clear up my allegedly mistake and we start again with this map ._.

(Y)

I'll keep doing these things.I do understand teini94 . He was just used to the great old map.

very right!

I'll pay more attention to those things in the future (:

very nice!





Index I dont know you! but I think it is amazing

I dont meant that my meaning has a chance.

but you looked what is the best for the map. and you testet this map "longtime"
with screenshoots and much more (that is very nice)

than you changed somethings you meant.
and finally . we talked and now you deleted the change! that is nice! deleted all your work for a better way of life/for better map.

you very nice tee index wanna play with me This map?
than you know what I mean hehe.

thx for great texts have a nice day!

I want that you test my next map I upload sometime!

mfg teini94

but I only wanna say again one thing you know koule 5? this was a very cool looking map* I liked the style the grapic all , and you changed it

ok graphic changes , I dont like it but I can life with it.
koule 5 had a fast"cheat"way" << some player "cheatet"( a cut)
part 2 (5min faster)
but now map changed and it dont work anymore

I think the mapper changed them map again- that is ok

but Index dont change all the procutes* if you found some in a map

but you can change some mapcutes !

"that is the hard thing of your job" what you change- and what not"

So all Mapper and tester should work in a nice team.

but I think in oldschool maps ? nobody should change a oldschool map?

But!?


look hardcore 2?/3 flying around map? change or not?

and I know again a half flying around map(but I dont wanna say it)
( I am scared for change)

pro way = faster
noobs can do the normal way.

that is another question of our life.

and pls if u really dont want change the map

reload the original map on the servers ^^

someone who can upload this map? ^^ that is the original version without unused graphics


real_map_without_unused_stuff

I think this map is not enough rated. 6 points for this when you have unfailable moderate maps who give more points is quite interesting..