Forum - DDraceNetwork

@mdzdri
They did. Also, I strongly disagree with your statement about "hi_tler_gll" not being insult, but it will take me quite awhile (and probably a big chunck of info from research papers of sociology) to explain why you cannot say that, so I probably won't stop here.

Also:

deen wrote:f you consider a moderator's behaviour unjustified, please take it up with that moderator, or with a different moderator or me directly, in private. Public complaints about moderation are not allowed.

mdzdri wrote:By becoming an admin you should treat EVERYONE with the same respect and care for their opinion no matter how they express it.

For respect you should deserve, of course everyone get some of it at the beginning, but that the most of currently banned guys threw it away at the very beginning is their fault.

mdzdri wrote:Of course if someone starts insulting you that is another matter but you cannot take even regular criticism from what I've seen on this forum already.

Regular criticism we handle almost everyday, but as you said, insulting one (which provides no arguments) is different topic.

mdzdri wrote:If you cannot accept criticism, no matter how it is presented to you, then you are doing something wrong.

Neither I am going to accept criticism that ain't shown in an objective way and being presented or written just to insult or start yet another shitstorm, rest what I could add is written under previous quote.

mdzdri wrote:However, if I would actually see any real evidence of his misbehaviour I would be on Leute's side.

You won't see any, that's the point of clearing up the forum and servers to maintain friendly and inviting atmosphere.

mdzdri wrote:And how did these "adults" handle the whole situation? By banning a bunch of people on the forum and giving them general shit.

Nobody's banned for no reason, especially due to fact that we actually don't like to ban ppl, even though it may look completely different due to latest events.

User Guidelines wrote:If a user violates our guidelines and shows a disregard for them, our staff and our community, they run the risk of being banned.

Breaking rules / showing disregard for them (and the community) is equal with getting warning, and that "some people are collecting warnings like stamps" (which of course means being banned earlier or later) is also their fault.

mdzdri wrote:What should've happened is they should've gathered on a TS and talk this through (seriously this ain't that hard).

First of all, it would be much harder than you think if you remember about the fact that we have people from almost all over the world. Second thing is that it would be even more senseless (and full of "inaproperiate content") - if they can't discuss in an adult way on forum, they surely won't via voice chat.

mdzdri wrote:Before someone gives me shit about being on this forum for a couple days and already trying to be a smart ass I just wanted to say that I have been part of a few gaming communities already (big and small - one smaller than TW even) so I know how this stuff works and trust me there is no problem that could not be solved by a simple and calm discussion. Of course if both sides decide to be dicks and don't do anything in order to settle things down then yeah, nothing's gonna happen.

And so were we, so we know that not with everyone it's possible to talk normally, otherwise being part of this community would be like thrilled to bits (seventh heaven).



We're aware there are still either bigger and smaller problems - but not everything can be fixed just like that.

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mdzdri wrote:However I haven't seen any of the people who got banned insult any of the admins therefore they should not have been banned. Unless, their posts that insulted the admins got deleted in which case there is no proof of that and I am terribly sorry but I won't trust somebody's word on the internet (no matter who that person is, unless I know this person in real life).

Enough proof should be that for you (at this moment) this topic have 12 pages, while for me one more - due to the soft deleted posts. There are also some topics where the difference would be over 4 pages, and of course whole deleted topics. Every of them is soft deleted, which means that any forum moderator can read them all the time.

@Soreu: I would've quoted your post but for obvious reasons I won't (my post would probably take a whole page on this forum...). Anyways, finally I received an answer from the leadership that I cannot really argue with. So far you are the only person who's answer made enough sense for me to accept. Of course i disagree with a few parts that I will mention below but still, thank you.

Soreu wrote:

mdzdri wrote:If you cannot accept criticism, no matter how it is presented to you, then you are doing something wrong.

Neither I am going to accept criticism that ain't shown in an objective way and being presented or written just to insult or start yet another shitstorm, rest what I could add is written under previous quote.

Well, here lies our first disagreement. Even unobjective criticism might be informative enough for you to understand where a problem lies (of course to some extent). But I understand why that for of criticism is annoying and why you disregard it.

Soreu wrote:

mdzdri wrote:However, if I would actually see any real evidence of his misbehaviour I would be on Leute's side.

You won't see any, that's the point of clearing up the forum and servers to maintain friendly and inviting atmosphere.

This is yet another problem. I actually want to see this evidence. I want to see how those people acted so that I can confirm to myself that yes, they deserve to be banned. I understand why you want to keep this forum clean but since we are all using the internet we probably can handle a few insults here and there just as proof of someone's misbehaviour. Because what happens here is there is a huge shitstorm happening right now between those who think these people deserved to be banned and those who think they didn't and the leadership wants both sides to believe their word - which of course is possible but for various reasons most of us do not accept that.

Soreu wrote:

mdzdri wrote:What should've happened is they should've gathered on a TS and talk this through (seriously this ain't that hard).

First of all, it would be much harder than you think if you remember about the fact that we have people from almost all over the world. Second thing is that it would be even more senseless (and full of "inaproperiate content") - if they can't discuss in an adult way on forum, they surely won't via voice chat.

Indeed, timezones are an issue but there are ways to set up a TS/Skype meeting for a time that suits both sides. Also, I agree that if they cannot discuss it like humans on the forum it would probably be worse on voice chat but by discussing things on the voice chat it would free the forum of them thus resulting in nobody being banned aswell as this shitstorm would not have happened.

That's probably everything I got to say now and the whole subject was probably drained currrently. Hopefully everything will turn out just fine, it would really be a shame to lose so many cool players because of a stupid disagreement and because both sides can't just talk this through.

Shitstorm does not lead to anything. Stop fight and release some novice maps last ~60 released maps have 1 short novice...

have a nice weekend

I think that if the banned people really broke the rules (like, for example, they insulted admins or anyone else - there really shouldn't be any distinction on that), then the decision to ban them seems justified.

But I would change 2 things which I think went wrong here:
a) I would leave the posts which caused the bans visible - only censoring them (by replacing swearing with "*****"). That way, people would be able to witness the reasons for the ban. Please, don't get me wrong - I believe that those bans were justified - but I think it would be better, for both the admins and the users, if the proofs haven't got hidden (as the users wouldn't doubt in the admins and the admins would have solid arguments).
b) I wouldn't ban people permanently, as that will damage the players society and cause escalation of the conflict. Flamewars should be stopped by saying "ok: A, B and C are banned for 2 weeks and we don't talk about this since now on", not by excluding important players from the society for ever.

So, in my opinion, the people who created this mess should be unbanned after some time (maybe shorter or longer - depending on what exactly each of them did), but they shouldn't be banned forever - because a lot of them are friends to many of us and even if they did something wrong, we should forgive them and allow them to return after they calm down. Tees should hug and forgive each other instead of fighting. ^^

PS. If nobody got permanently banned, then I'm sorry and "b)" is a mistake (I don't know how to check a ban lenght, but I was told that they got permbans).

SPOILER ALERT:

BamBam wrote:SPOILER ALERT:

Luke, I am your...Show

I... Am... 11... So... Please... A bit lighter on the swearing

I was trying to loosened atmosphere once but my post was deleted

CffTime wrote:@mdzdri
They did. Also, I strongly disagree with your statement about "hi_tler_gll" not being insult, but it will take me quite awhile (and probably a big chunck of info from research papers of sociology) to explain why you cannot say that, so I probably won't stop here.

leute did something similar to "hi_tler_gll" to deen (when deen was admin), so it shouldn't hurt him too hard, if he is called like that.

They are not good and worst map there are jist differents maps and maybe if a player dont like a map an other player will like it

BUT somme maps are really s***** (like just a blue background and no texture)
So i think tester must mayne just exclude sh**** maps

Pikou300 wrote:BUT somme maps are really s***** (like just a blue background and no texture)
So i think tester must mayne just exclude sh**** maps

Sorry but that's called oldschool and these maps are pretty damn nice to play. If a map has a lot of design I just play with entities because I don't care about design, I card about parts. I can't play when whole map is crammed with annoying details.