Forum - DDraceNetwork

timakro wrote: And now he talks about introducing teeworlds code newbies to the structure of the code which is totally off topic because a lot of people (he included) had a chance to suggest solutions but none of them did solve the issues he criticizes. Another dev wouldn't have helped at all in this situation.

There were proper solutions, they were just not doable, cause they either would need more devs (amount of needed time) or just got ignored. Instead you made even plans to do a single tile on the Switch-layer. Depending on which number you choose the function of the ht changes. It was just your goal to use as least tiles as possible, not to get the most functional (or even efficient) version.

Saying that a lot of people had a chance to suggest solutions is just a pure lie. It is not true. Only a few people even knew that you are working on it. You were never tried to hear these solutions and improve yours, cause you didn't care about the tile's useability.

Just as info: Even Soreu - one of the admins - wanted more tiles for ht.

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Your current solution is very confusing, not well usuable and even contains bugs.

• Ht and hookblocker having the same sprite is extremely confusing. How should a mapper know while mapping what is what?
  

  

  screenshot_2016-05-01_16-20-28.png (136.65 KiB) Viewed 2972 times

• Further these graphics are bad usuable in the editor. It's just messy, especially in combination with blueish designs. If you map for a few hours this could get pretty exhausting for your eyes:
  

  

  screenshot_2016-04-30_22-09-16.png (429.93 KiB) Viewed 2972 times

  Soreu already made a version which was more similar to the old ht's graphics. I have no idea why he deleted them.
• The possibilitys these tiles offer are very limited. Basically only usuable for simple one-block-hts. For any bit more complicated solution you still need the old one. An example which shows how limited this is:
  

  

  screenshot_2016-04-30_22-16-32.png (327.32 KiB) Viewed 2972 times

  Don't get me wrong: It is still nice to have a fully working and unbugged single-tile. But basically it would be a chance to do more than that, e.g. for this situation a 2-way block.
• So now I still need to use the old ht for any bit more complex situation. This means basically that you can use the old ht always and just use the new one for big areas or special situations where the old one is too bugged. This still wouldn't be bad if the new one would be compatible to the new one, but ofc it isn't:
  

  

  screenshot_2016-04-30_22-16-59.png (528.89 KiB) Viewed 2972 times

  I know why it isn't compatible and I also don't expect it to be. But as long as you are forced to use the old ht it will cause more trouble than it helps.

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These things were already told months ago by different people. Even suggestions which would improve the functionality of the editor and also would have an effect on other features were made. You just didn't care about any of them, as long as you have a super solution with only 3 tiles in total.
Split ht and hookblocker, give them their own sprite, add more varations for ht... If this is well done it would be a really good and improving thing. But in this state it makes the editor just more messy and more hard to use for beginners.

Point 1: Both tiles you can see on the screenshot do the same
Point 2: Create your own entities if you don't like how they look
Point 3: I don't see what you are trying to achieve
Point 4: Useless example and it's impossible to make them compatible anyways

timakro wrote:Point 1: Both tiles you can see on the screenshot do the same

No, one is the hookblocker, one is the ht.

timakro wrote: Point 2: Create your own entities if you don't like how they look

Yes, cause every player is a PS-artist... Then it doesn't matter if the default ones are usable or not.

timakro wrote: Point 3: I don't see what you are trying to achieve

One-way ht around a corner obviously.

timakro wrote: Point 4: Useless example and it's impossible to make them compatible anyways

Ye, cause you aren't into mapping. But as soon as you are forced to use the old ht (which is pretty often) you can't use the new one anymore.
I already wrote that I know it is impossible...

Point 1: I assume one is 66 in game and one 66 in front, they both do the same.
Point 2: Nobody can create entities everyone likes, and you can just replace it with something easy that doesn't "hurt your eyes"
Point 3: Use either one way hookthrough up or right in the corner you can hook through
Point 4: There may be problems, I just can't think of any right away.

timakro wrote:Point 1: I assume one is 66 in game and one 66 in front, they both do the same.

Sure they do the same in-game in this particular situation. But the tile from the game-layer is always a hookblocker, while the front-layer's tile can get 2 totally different functions depending on where it gets placed. But it's always the same sprite. That is just weird for mappers, especially for beginners.
Why don't you just move the hookblocker a row down, give it it's own graphics? (Already sent Soreu a suggestion for this graphic.)

timakro wrote:Point 2: Nobody can create entities everyone likes, and you can just replace it with something easy that doesn't "hurt your eyes"

Yes, sure not expecting this. But these are pretty obvious errors, not personal taste.
Just had a talk with Soreu, he told me that these tiles weren't even made to be released with DDNet 10.0. He is still working on them.
So you just couldn't wait a few days to finish it properly and released unfinished graphics.

Soreu wrote:I would appreciate your feedback and tests

Dunno how you think this is equal to "put that in the client!"

timakro wrote: Point 3: Use either one way hookthrough up or right in the corner you can hook through

Doesn't work w/o getting more bugs: Just add more possiblitys (2-way, 3-way, ...). So we would have a real inner and outer corner for such parts. Also a block which allows 2 opposite directions, but no hooks from the side would be great.

timakro wrote:Point 4: There may be problems, I just can't think of any right away.

There won't be many problems if the new ht-tiles have enough functions.