Forum - DDraceNetwork

Maybe snail shouldn't say, that there will only be special releases for hyped maps. I don't see a reason in saying this.
If there are any reasons for a map to skip map testing section, why not. It's not like we sticked to any rules at any time.
Besides that, i don't see a reason to cry about that map, neither i see a reason to mention that in this topic. hi_leute_gll switched that topic because what?
And now you complain about him ignoring your actual problem, while you made him answer to your new topic.
Stop being awkward and start doing something. Snail stop beeing lazy

Welf wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:07 amhi_leute_gll switched that topic because what?

I didn't get an answer to the original question for 2 weeks. So I wanted to know if there is still any staff member left who does read the forums. To check that I wrote that second question which is more personal and complaints about a certain person.

The result of that 'experiment' is: You only get an answer if you attack a staff member personally, while you don't get any if you just ask a normal question.

You dont get an answer if your name is hi_leute_gll xD
And Stronghold is a good map, not your crap creative

I answered the 2nd thing because somebody linked it to me and as always you started spreading nonsense stuff

what the heck do you exactly want us to answer to a rant that basically says "your selected maps are crap, iMTG did much better"??
maybe the list isn't perfect, fact is no list will ever be.

now if you have better suggestions (and actual ones, not "this mapper has X maps in the list, UNFAIR!!") you could either contribute with a revised version of the list (or a whole new one, whatever); or you could sit there complaining and trying to point fingers at whoever took the time and the effort to do the current list with the goal of improving the servers

i guess you made your choice, very surprising one


edit: and while criticism / contribution are always welcome, that said criticism is pointless if it has no actual purpose of helping and based on personal tastes.. "these lists are bad/showcasing crap maps/..."
the only actual suggestion you did was about having 1 or 2 maps from 1 series in the list and yet again that's debatable

Still no answer to my question, instead personal flame complaining about personal flame. Awesome.

Maybe you should read my post again. Especially in terms of contributing with suggestions, since half of your post doesn't match to this thread.

hi_leute_gll wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:07 pm Still no answer to my question, instead personal flame complaining about personal flame. Awesome.

Maybe you should read my post again. Especially in terms of contributing with suggestions, since half of your post doesn't match to this thread.

Your posts really make me appreciate the downvote functionality on Reddit. Its too bad phpBB doesn't have that

I don't see any "flame" in my post, but I am very deeply sorry if anything I said hurt your feelings

what question still needs an answer? I actually covered every point of the first post..?

hi_leute_gll wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:41 pm I wonder why there are so many maps in this category on some servers and especially why there are so many bad maps in there.
On Novice, where this category existed before, some good maps have been taken out and replaced by crap maps. Why is that so?

aaa wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:30 am maybe the list isn't perfect, fact is no list will ever be.
(...)
criticism is pointless if (..) and based on personal taste

i'll justify that one since it might be hard to accept a simple fact: we all have different opinions. why would yours/iMTG be the right one as opposed to the ones that made the new list?
(hint: there is no "right" opinion, it will always differ from one person/group to the other)

hi_leute_gll wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:41 pm Also I think in the case of map series it is better to put only the best 1 or 2 maps of a series to the selected maps category, so that this won't get to messy. If people like the series then they could search for the other maps easily.

aaa wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:30 am the only actual suggestion you did was about having 1 or 2 maps from 1 series in the list and yet again that's debatable

hi_leute_gll wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:41 pm Furthermore I noticed that there are many maps made by the same few mappers in this category, or said otherwise: Some mappers have (nearly) all of their maps in this category. I don't think there is any mapper who is that perfect... All in all this list seems to be extremely biased (and made by a single person, instead of a group?) I don't know, who made it, tho. Maybe you can tell us?

aaa wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:30 am trying to point fingers at whoever took the time and the effort to do the current list with the goal of improving the servers

It is very important to know who made this list. (Not just to be able to flame him.) This question also coheres with the reason why iMTG's list is probably much better and especially more objective.

There was a group of five very different persons. Pros, casuals, speedrunners, people who play everything, people who play only the best maps, and so on. Then we made a voting where every one could rate a map with "Yes", "No" and "Maybe". Following the results of this voting we got a list of maps which potentially could be selected maps and which aren't really popular at all.
After we got this first overview we discussed every single map (also maps without a good voting result) in the group, people could explain why a map should be selected or why it shouldn't. We took a look on statistics such as finishes, we talked about the general recognition of a map (e.g. if people are still talking about it after some time), we observed whether maps are still played and so on. Combining all these elements of subjective and objective reasons we made up a final list of selected maps.

Of course, such a list is never perfect. You can allways discuss about single entrys. But the way we have choosen the maps we could be sure that most of the list is consistent and understandable. We could be sure that the probability to miss any real good map or to add a crap map is low enough. Surely it would be still possible to add/remove maps to/from the list if another community member proposes a map followed by well made arguments.

While in our list such failures would be a real minority, the current lists contain quite some maps which are highly questionable.
I guess the reason for this is based on who made the list, e.g. if it has been made by only a single person then it surely is less consistent than a list made by a group of different people. Anyway as I said: I don't know who made it and thus I can only assume something here, that's why I asked you who made it, so that we can discuss on facts instead of assumptions.


Since you wanted suggestions I will repost iMTG's list here. Keep in mind that this was made in summer 2015, so maps released later aren't considered.
These are 14 maps out of 98 maps released back then. There is a good variety of different difficulties, types of maps and mappers. If there is a series of maps then not more than 2 maps per series were chosen.


Now let's compare this with the current list: (The maps which have a date in brackets have been released after iMTG's list has been made.)

There are also 14 maps out of 121 maps in total. There are less easy maps, less mappers, less variety, but instead 4 times Kobra and maps such as Bullets or Cartoon which aren't good enough on an objective base.


We also started to do the list for Moderate, but never finished it. These are the maps we had chosen so far, keep in mind: It wasn't finished. Anyway it should give a small picture of what kind of maps we were to add to the list of selected maps.
As you can see, here we also provided a wide variety of different maps, mappers, styles, difficultys and so on. If we would have finished this list we probably would have ended up with about 20 - maybe 25 - maps out of around 200 maps which have been released back then.

---

To sum this up:
I would never say that iMTG's list is the perfect list everyone has to agree with. Although, the complex and time-consuming method we used to elect the selected maps provided a much more consistent and diversified set of maps.

hi_leute_gll wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:48 pm It is very important to know who made this list. (Not just to be able to flame him.) This question also coheres with the reason why iMTG's list is probably much better and especially more objective.

There was a group of five very different persons. Pros, casuals, speedrunners, people who play everything, people who play only the best maps, and so on.

1.iMTG had good players? never seen any











2.I offer my self as a tester IF tester are allowed to do more then just saying their opinion, im tired of pointing out bugs and saying my opinion if i see a shit map i want to reject that, same the other way arround, i dont want to wait 2 weeks or more( neither the mappers want) until finally a "higher rank tester" finally looks 5 min at it and then decides what to do...

LMAO HAHAHAHAHA HE IS WRITING NOVELS AGAIN
Did anyone even read 2 sentences?