Forum - DDraceNetwork

Heyho,

About 2 weeks ago I started playing with friends, who never played teeworlds before. We started with Novice Maps 1-2*, but even these were too hard and some parts even were harder than this rating. Then, there are Maps like "Generic World", wich obviously take 100+ minutes, are really faily and need more than 2 tees for sure. They are too hard for just brut 5*.

1.) First of all Change of Servercategories:

As I said before, there are maps too hard for beginner, and maps which are too hard for pros, so here's my Improvement:

1. Novice Server (No stars or again 1-5)
This Server should be for the real beginner, who never played teeworlds before, the maps have to be easier than Novice how it is atm. But for this, there have to be new maps and not just random maps, maps which help to learn everything of the game (some volunteers should create a team and be the admins for that and look over it. They can start to make these maps and demos and also get the maps and demos from other people who want to help, but they have to look over these and change something here and there if possible). Real Newcomer even cant hold hook, cause they dont know or it's just too hard at the start! Also it would be nice to make demos and include them in the DDnetClient or on the website to help them. ["normal" Points should'nt be included in this Server, but more to this topic later]

2. Easy Server (1-5 Stars) [There also can be another name, but I dont find the right word (like Beginner or Amateur)]
This Server should be like the Novice Server we have atm. So it's litereally the same maps which are on Novice now.
So on this Server are Maps, which are for the beginner, who mastered this 1. Server and just started to handel the hook, hammer, etc..

3. Moderate Server (1-5 Stars)
Like the moderate Server now, for people who can hook, hammer, etc. precise and even are able to do "harder" things like hammer or hookfly which are not too hard, but it will be harder with increasing stars.

4. Brutal Server
Like the brutal Server now, with some changes for the difficulty Level and at least 1 map "Generic World" has to be in my next category.
Server for people who really got advanced skills by investigating a lot of time in playing a lot of maps. They can easily do hammerfly, hookfly, rocketfly and all the other things and even mangae hard parts 1* and later even harder parts 5*, which are near at the limit of possibility.

5. Inhuman/Extreme or Torture Server (No Stars or again 1-5) [Again, I dont know how to call it]
Server for the real pros who really want a challenge which makes them fun and even sad if they fail.
Maps, which are really long, faily and not really poissbile with just 2player. Here it counts on teamplay and trust in the others. The Maps should be over 100,200 or 300 minutes long, really hard, but make fun.
You need perfect skills, aim and experience.
First Map for this Server is "Generic World".

I think this subdivision is much better and I also think my next point will convince you that it's better.


2.)Points/difficulty Level:

The Points should be the same for the 2. to the 4. category, so for Easy to brutal (like it is now), but for the first and last server I thought about something:
Also atm the stars have to be changed. So it would be smarter to first include the new categories and then change alle difficulties, cause atm there are too many maps which are harder or easier as the rating pretends.
"Conscientious" (Moderate 4*) is harder than Mod 4.
"Nostalgia" (Brutal 2*) is easier than Brut 2.
And there are even more, like genericore, which are harder and and and.:


1. Novice Server
I have a lot of ideas for this server. For example the maps you play can give like points, who unlock you. So new player first only can play on this Novice Server, which show them everything. If they would first see the hard maps, they'd just quit ddnet, with this system it helps them step by step and makes ddnet more attractive to them.
Only if they collect enough starter/unlock or whatever points, they can start to play on the 2., they Easy/Amateur/Beginner or whatever Server.
Then there's the question if it needs a system from 1 to 5*. I don't think so. This Maps and demos or what will be included then just show the newcomer the basics and help them to reach this level.
So like you get for every map or whatever (I dont know what you can do, cause I dont know what the programmer of ddnet can do for this; I dont know anything about programmin ) the same amount of unlocking points, cause every map or whatever helps them to learn 1 basic "skill" like hammer, hook, or hold hook at another tee.
If they got enough points they can unlock themself or automatically get unlocked for the normal server 2-4 (or even to 5)?

2. Easy/Ameteur/Beginner Server
3. Moderate Server
4. Brutal Server
There should be a team of 3-5 people, who watch over every single map. They have to watch, which features a map has and they have to order it in the right category. Then they have to make the rating to 1-5*.
Example: Like they start with 1 map, this map for example needs good skill, has a moderate hammerfly, easy hookfly, no rocketfly, but you need a bit to aim and to hammer/hook. So they'd give it Mod 2*. Then they look what rating the map had before. Also they ask other player, preferably people who already finished this map, about their opinion. Then they have to think about it all clearly and decide while argumenting about the rating. If it's hard to decide for one special map they can ask more people.

5. Extreme/Inhuman/Torture Server
I think for this server you should also be unlocked by collecting enough normal points. But you have to consider how much people have how much points. If you'd unlock at 10k points +, only 9 player could play these maps, although their are much more who can do it. The other problem is, that some people like Lexin finish with fake names, and would'nt have enough points to play on this server. [Points ≠ Skill] But if you let everyone play there it would be kinda a mess so I don't know which would be the right way, give your opinions, if you read until here.
Also there can be from 1-5* or you dont add this feature, cause this are maps which are more 100 mins and so on ( I said before ) and they are kinda the same. For this maps you should get more than 30 points or another system, which gives you "special points" which change for example the colour of your name ingame and there could be a ranking like:
1 point: blue (1 map finished)
2 points: green (2 maps finished)
(Just as example, so you know what I mean)
So people will get a bit of honour and other people will know that they're good.
The problem with this would be that you can change your name in every, so we'd need an account system and I don't know if this is possible or this easy to program..


Conclusion:
So, I hope you can understand me, and you can sympathize with one or more of my ideas, or you want to be in one of the teams to help or have other ideas or better suggestions for one of mine. [Btw. this is not only my idea, the most it is, but I talked with deen about this, and there's also something which he mentioned. ]
I think now the admins have to think about it, if it is good enough and we have to see, what will happen.
First they have to act, people have to give their opinions and suggestions and teams must be formed which will concentrate on their own thing but will at the end come together with the others to get a nice completion!

Thanks for reading and think about it + post you opnions good and bad and give a reason, but don't write hate comments, it took me a long time to write all this and so on.
I hope I didn't forget something. ._.

EDIT: I just mean to change the situation of Novice - Brutal Servers, NOT the other like Dummy,DDmax or else, just so you know.

Unlocking maps by points, it's really bad idea.

Maybe you only have the mentality to finish maps, but there is also the factor called "fun" wich is even in maps like generic world, wich most of player can't finish, but they still play it.

The only change i would do is add a server with maps that are easier than actual novice, but you have to know that to play ddrace its recommended to play normal teeworlds firts, and learn the basics of movement and hook. DDrace is hard.

There are only 9 tees with more than 10000 points.

We couldn't do things like this viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2854

Thanks for your answer,

I dont have just the mentality to finish maps, but you won't have fun with newcomer to play this map.
Also it is fun to finish the map, this is the point which makes the fun the biggest.
And it was just one little suggestion to make a minimum of points needed to access 5. Server. Even I wasnt sure if this is good or not.

Agree pretty hard with Teengoten i like his idea's.
But it would be the first time that there will be changed something, probably because it's a lot of work.

Well that are almost excatly the ideas hi_leute and me had one year ago, we just had another name for the 2 new servers: basic for the supereasy server and barbaric for the superhard server. The main idea behind the two servers was same like you wrote here to have fitting servers for absolutely beginners and for pros. The "barbaric" server is an idea to stop putting too hard maps on lower values to get place for even harder maps. A brutal 3* map two years ago is now something about mod 4 or 3 because maps are getting harder but there is no place where one could put the latest hardest maps.

My opinion:

Let it as it is!
Just create a new servercategorie called "Newcomer". On this Servertype the new players can learn step by step.
In my imagination there a maps like "HookIt1 - 3, Hammerfly1 - 3, Hammerhit1 - 3, and more easy stuff". For this maps you wont get points, its just for learning.
But there is a problem.. we need some guys to create this maps & it should be tested by players they dont play since years.
And Silex said it allready - lot of work.

I wonder why this thread is excisting.. i started ddrace at 2011 and i dont get any help like this & im still playing.
There is still no master fell from the sky!

#Spoiler The ultimate hint to be the best DDRacer ever: If the new players haven't the power to play more than 2 weeks, they shouldnt play it. It's like every MMORPG - watch at World of Warcraft -> you don't start with Lv85. You have to play more than some months to get pro.

#End


Greets LanuX

Generic World is very easy xD

It helps to decide if a map is brutal, moderate or whatever if you consider what I said in my post: Hammerfly, Hookfly, Rocketfly, how hard are the parts, how faily, teleporter? Etc.
So it has a system, cause milk would say moderate maps are novice and a beginner would say moderate are brutal.

Hey,

as kamillentee already said we had such plans long before and I also heard such kind of suggestions by different players, so there is generally an interest in these things.

But that we are thinking about this since a year does also mean that we are aware of some problems, but let's start with a bit more details about our ideas:

• Currently the gap between lower and higher Novice is bigger than the one between Novice and Moderate, also lower Moderate and higher Moderate don't fit together at all. To balance this we wanted to put higher Novice and lower Moderate together and have it as server for advanced players.
  
  With this the Moderate server could have a higher stars/maps-ratio so that we could have more precious ratings there. These would be really maps for people who can handle all basic techniques and start training "pro-moves" like rf or playing more faily maps.
  
  Instead of creating new tutorial-maps we would've just used the current lower Novice maps. These maps are good enough to learn DDrace and still make fun. It's nearly impossible to map maps which are easier and enjoyable at the same time. As Ryozuki said DDNet is a mod - that kinda means that it is intended to be played after the basics of teeworlds have been learned.

Now...what are the problems?

• Basically it's the time.
  
  Imo it would be really great to have a new structure with rerated maps and such...but even if you manage to rerate 5 maps per day (which would be a pretty insane amount on long-term) you would need over a year to rerate all of these (almost) 2k maps.
  
  I've experienced this while trying to create the Selected Maps. As you might know they still only exist on Novice, the list for Moderate was half done or so and even that hafl list took a month.
  But this was a way simpler task, cause you just needed to collect votes in a group and discuss special cases. If you now need to take a detailed look on every single map...srsly it's not possible.
  
  One of the earlier ideas which got realized is the category for Dummy maps. Even here with ~30 maps they didn't manage to set up a proper point-system and rate the maps. (If you take a look on the single ratings you will fastly see that these don't fit together at all.) How shall this be done with 2k maps then?
  

  Silex wrote:Agree pretty hard with Teengoten i like his idea's.
  But it would be the first time that there will be changed something, probably because it's a lot of work.

  It's exactly how it is.

tl;dr:
These ideas - like many others too - are going over DDNet's limit. DDNet is a open-source project, not a commercial one - even if some people don't want to get that.
They are still good, but just not realistic to be realized. Maybe only single parts of it.

---

Alex wrote:It's like every MMORPG - watch at World of Warcraft -> you don't start with Lv85.

Lol, guy. It's 2016... You just buy your char in the shop and that's it.

i like the way it is atm, and for the brutal server all 5 star is pretty damn hard, except a few like the once with 20+ finishes, which in my opinion should be 4 stars, but thats only because our current max is 5 star and we have to rate maps by that. i got many ideas for changes,exsample for changing how many points each server should give & for re-rating the maps.
i tried with 2 maps, but i see nothing happend, so i wont even bother with the rest.
and novice is really hard for beginners, we really seriusly need a compleat beginner server. hopefully with 100+.
my noob friends has to try 80 mins for each part in purple panic before they learn it, and it gets tireing and borring really fast.