DDMax Difficulty.

[hannibal]

I'd like to add that newbie maps are meant for newbies. It took me 150 hours to complete Kobra 2, I remember it.

This adds another factor in my opinion. If you're a brutal player or even better, you'll have the same hard time to finish a brutal map as a novice player has to finish a newbie map. I think the point system is ok as it is.

But the non-linear point system for ddmax is an interesting idea.

[hi_leute_gll]

The people who finished that maps don't need that 30 pts anyway.

Also an interesting model is the one of Qshar, cause there you have a star-rating to show how much skill you need and a point-rating to give points depending also on aspects like length of the maps. But also here the problem is the time to do it, atm not possible.
Also a problem is that people are finishing for others, so the points are senseless anyway if you really want to look how much skill and time someone invested.
The points are just there to make the people playing, mostly they don't care if they get one point more or less for a single map and even if they do they would rather vote for more points.

[Welf]

Points are not there to represent the skill level of a player. You get points as reward for finishing maps, so you play more. If you want many points you can do the novice-moderate maps, you get many points on these servers, only if you are pro you can do the brutal maps and get even more points than others. If a map gives you 120 points, some pros would have 100.000 points and normal players will have like 2.000, i think nobody wants that.
On novice and moderate the points are "limited" on Brutal you can always do a map you didnt finish yet, even milk. I think Brutal map rating is well balanced

I dont think that a rating as you want it Frrrrr will work, what about a only triple fly map? The difficulty of a map is not as easy to calculate as you think. I as a tester dont want to look up in a list how the map should be rated, thats jut too complicated.
Every player in tw can say how a map should be rated, so map rating is close to what ppl think.

[Ryozuki]

I agre with wolf, but i had a (stupid ?) idea,
When a map is released, we can make a pull and decide the star dificulty. (?)

[[A] Awesome]

I think the ddmax maps shouldnt have an own point system, they should be under novice,moderate,brutal and oldschool because a map like Hopp is 1 point worth but you get 4 and some maps are more points worth but you get less.
And to the brutal maps i think there should be more then 5 stars maybe 6 or 7 stars brutal and maybe in 1or 2 years if the maps get harder 8 or 9 stars brutal

[Frrrrr :3]

I dont think that a rating as you want it Frrrrr will work, what about a only triple fly map? The difficulty of a map is not as easy to calculate as you think. I as a tester dont want to look up in a list how the map should be rated, thats jut too complicated.
Every player in tw can say how a map should be rated, so map rating is close to what ppl think.

Yes it is just a suggestion.
"What ppl think" - its subjective. Any newbie think that moderate 1 star is very hard map. Same with testers. If tester have big shotgun skill he sees the "sg solo" map easier than it is.
I would like to transfer points to the objective rails.

Now about triple fly:

In this system, value based at elements.
For example:
Tripple fly skill driver any direction - +10 pts.
Tripple fly skill middle - +30 pts.
Rocket fly skill any direction +20 pts.
Length - elements(10+30+20) / 50 * min (for ex. 20 min). = +24pts.
Points for finish: 84.
For ex, estimated map length is 5 hours = (10+30+20)/50 * 300 = +360.
Reward for finish: 420.
Its fair for 5-hour 3x hammerfly map (just imagine that!!!!) with rocketfly elements.

Its very easy to set objective price map. Not like "i feel its hard"/"i feel its easy" bla-bla-bla subjective valuation.
Of course the cost of skill will change over time and we can ranking any skill as we want.

////
And plz fix client async bug at DummyCopyFly map! Some old ddrace server (at 2010) with copy func hadn't this bug at any ping <250.

[Soreu]

I don't really think anyone would go search list of 600+ skills (+ monthly updates because there are still new things incoming?) to rate map, another problem is that some of these skills for some ppl were easier to learn than for others - even rocketfly can be example...

Anyway,

[...] "What ppl think" - its subjective. Any newbie think that moderate 1 star is very hard map. Same with testers. If tester have big shotgun skill he sees the "sg solo" map easier than it is. [...]

Not really, and that's also one of reasons why there are so few testers - because not everyone is able to rate map ignoring their skills

Another problem in your points calculations is "brain" - currently on over 90% of maps you can do brainless race without even thinking what you (have to) do - that means when someone create map where you have to think, he gets flames etc just because ppl didn't got used to thinking - so what, +50 for using brain as main skill? or just -20 if you can race map without it? imo it would create another "unfair" case

//Aaand don't forget that ppl are just lazy - and that it's just volunteer, 3x more work / hours spent on reading list of skills won't really motivate anyone

[Frrrrr :3]

xDDD You're right of 600+ skills table.
But its very simple, than u imagine:

Shotgun skills table for ex:
1. Climbup 24 tiles at wall - 15 pts.
2. Climbup 10 tiles at wall - 3 pts.
3. Sg airforwarding - 7 pts.
4. Sg speedup 1 line - 1 pts.
5. Sg speedup different lines - 5 pts.
And more.

Man, 99% players are brainless. They can play only just "saw-repeat", 99% players NEVER think before do parts. I know 10 players of all DDNet who can beat map for first try without doing stupid fails, not skill-cap fails, just fails like "oh, i didnt see | oh i didnt think | oh im not specially | oh, sorry, idk what just happened" and more. Maybe all of this noobs have infinity life for 500 restarts for every map. Idk. Maybe they truly havent brain. There is a great mystery.

But seriously, the skill does not mean "of thinking." Skill is the automatic operation of the motor neurons.The process of repetition of the same action is skill training.

I think that the process of counting the cost can be partially automated.

[hi_leute_gll]

And more.

[Frrrrr :3]

Not so more)
Possible tricks with sg is 20-25.
Ok. 26. With Welf's shotgun 45-angle downshot jump.